Recent time in SE Asian cities
Sep. 3rd, 2022 04:03 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
Over several days I got to spend time in the cites of Johor Bahru, Kuala Lumpur, and Singapore. These are some of the thoughts that the travel left with me once I got back to Taguig.
First, for such an itinerary, do it by air. Maybe renting a car works too but, goodness, the land causeway between Johor Bahru and Singapore is a pain both ways. One is crammed onto buses and must wait plenty in immigration, definitely not the most pleasant of experiences. An aspect complicating the short bus journey, between exit from one country and entry to the other, was that they take cash or payment cards for the bus fare, except international cards tend not to work (nor in many ATMs) or, if one first manages to get cash from a money changer or an ATM, it's probably in apparently unacceptably large denominations.
I have mentioned how I often don't recognize the English spoken at me here in Metro Manila. Singaporeans imagine that they speak good British English but, in various regards, it's challenging to an outsider. Rail signs on Singapore's rapid transit are also in Chinese and Tamil. Malaysian identity seems rather more fiercely nationalistic, especially favoring Malay, the lack of inclusiveness is part of the story of why Singapore and Malaysia parted ways. Sure, Filipinos are also proud of their country and heritage but their government also backs English in various ways, perhaps they feel more self-assured.
It's interesting to taste the different characters of the cities. Islam felt strong in Kuala Lumpur and the museums are well worth visiting, including the Islamic art museum. Johor Bahru felt a bit more like Manila, a bit of organized chaos in the air, I also noticed more Hindu temples around, even a Gurdwara. Of course, just as the US once occupied the Philippines, both Malaysia and Singapore had the British, though I noticed American influence in Singapore too. Despite the US/UK influence, another strong taste in Singapore was that of authoritarian central planning, it reminded me a little of what could be done behind the Iron Curtain. Waiting in line to enter Malaysia, they played the Azan over the public address system whereas, in Singapore, at one point I heard Westminster Chimes.
For light rail or subway, an annoyance in Singapore was that they've ended whatever those tickets were one could buy at the machines, instead one swipes a payment card at the barrier, on entry and exit, quite a fuss when one has children in tow and must use a separate card for each passenger, also for tourists the question of per-transaction fees; it also doesn't accept AmEx. So, we developed a tedious ritual of distributing acceptable payment cards and shepherding people through. Kuala Lumpur was easier, one could specify one's journey to the machine that provides plastic tokens that one can then distribute. There may have been alternatives but none were apparent.
The Singapore zoo is very good, macaques are hardly unusual here but I also got to be in the same space as tamarinds, lemurs, sloths, mousedeer, wallabies, fruit bats, etc., though was happy enough to simply be there with them rather than attempting to say hello. Separately, the aquarium seems to nicely demonstrate how many different animals can coeexist without promptly eating each other. Though, both are a bit of a pain to reach from what one might consider to be downtown.
Singapore's vehicle license plates seemed tantalizing carriers of information. Many followed a common pattern and the first letter of those strongly correlated with the vehicle type. I wondered what clues the other characters offered.
SE Asians seem to love their indoor malls. Johor Bahru's seemed oddly bereft though, reminding me of what happened to many of the US' city malls years ago. R. attributes this to the pandemic's influence on tourism, perhaps there will be more shoppers from Singapore now restrictions continue to be lifted. The historic central market in Kuala Lumpur was also far emptier than R. remembers.
Both Kuala Lumpur and Singapore have both a Chinatown and a Little India. I tended not to favor many of the Chinese food offerings as I was avoiding pork and shrimp and slimy, squidgy lumps. Plenty of what I ate was South Asian or from more toward the Middle East or Mediterranean.
Since my return, I still appear to be pointing at things with my thumb, it apparently being rude to extend one's finger in that manner. At least I am good at switching between standing on the left or right of the escalator, perhaps the countries' US or UK influence shows through there.
First, for such an itinerary, do it by air. Maybe renting a car works too but, goodness, the land causeway between Johor Bahru and Singapore is a pain both ways. One is crammed onto buses and must wait plenty in immigration, definitely not the most pleasant of experiences. An aspect complicating the short bus journey, between exit from one country and entry to the other, was that they take cash or payment cards for the bus fare, except international cards tend not to work (nor in many ATMs) or, if one first manages to get cash from a money changer or an ATM, it's probably in apparently unacceptably large denominations.
I have mentioned how I often don't recognize the English spoken at me here in Metro Manila. Singaporeans imagine that they speak good British English but, in various regards, it's challenging to an outsider. Rail signs on Singapore's rapid transit are also in Chinese and Tamil. Malaysian identity seems rather more fiercely nationalistic, especially favoring Malay, the lack of inclusiveness is part of the story of why Singapore and Malaysia parted ways. Sure, Filipinos are also proud of their country and heritage but their government also backs English in various ways, perhaps they feel more self-assured.
It's interesting to taste the different characters of the cities. Islam felt strong in Kuala Lumpur and the museums are well worth visiting, including the Islamic art museum. Johor Bahru felt a bit more like Manila, a bit of organized chaos in the air, I also noticed more Hindu temples around, even a Gurdwara. Of course, just as the US once occupied the Philippines, both Malaysia and Singapore had the British, though I noticed American influence in Singapore too. Despite the US/UK influence, another strong taste in Singapore was that of authoritarian central planning, it reminded me a little of what could be done behind the Iron Curtain. Waiting in line to enter Malaysia, they played the Azan over the public address system whereas, in Singapore, at one point I heard Westminster Chimes.
For light rail or subway, an annoyance in Singapore was that they've ended whatever those tickets were one could buy at the machines, instead one swipes a payment card at the barrier, on entry and exit, quite a fuss when one has children in tow and must use a separate card for each passenger, also for tourists the question of per-transaction fees; it also doesn't accept AmEx. So, we developed a tedious ritual of distributing acceptable payment cards and shepherding people through. Kuala Lumpur was easier, one could specify one's journey to the machine that provides plastic tokens that one can then distribute. There may have been alternatives but none were apparent.
The Singapore zoo is very good, macaques are hardly unusual here but I also got to be in the same space as tamarinds, lemurs, sloths, mousedeer, wallabies, fruit bats, etc., though was happy enough to simply be there with them rather than attempting to say hello. Separately, the aquarium seems to nicely demonstrate how many different animals can coeexist without promptly eating each other. Though, both are a bit of a pain to reach from what one might consider to be downtown.
Singapore's vehicle license plates seemed tantalizing carriers of information. Many followed a common pattern and the first letter of those strongly correlated with the vehicle type. I wondered what clues the other characters offered.
SE Asians seem to love their indoor malls. Johor Bahru's seemed oddly bereft though, reminding me of what happened to many of the US' city malls years ago. R. attributes this to the pandemic's influence on tourism, perhaps there will be more shoppers from Singapore now restrictions continue to be lifted. The historic central market in Kuala Lumpur was also far emptier than R. remembers.
Both Kuala Lumpur and Singapore have both a Chinatown and a Little India. I tended not to favor many of the Chinese food offerings as I was avoiding pork and shrimp and slimy, squidgy lumps. Plenty of what I ate was South Asian or from more toward the Middle East or Mediterranean.
Since my return, I still appear to be pointing at things with my thumb, it apparently being rude to extend one's finger in that manner. At least I am good at switching between standing on the left or right of the escalator, perhaps the countries' US or UK influence shows through there.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-03 06:10 pm (UTC)I have mentioned how I often don't recognize the English spoken at me here in Metro Manila. Singaporeans imagine that they speak good British English but, in various regards, it's challenging to an outsider.
I suspect they are speaking "text book" British English - which is not the same as American, Australian, Canadian or British English on the street. I ran into the same problem when I went to France - I learned textbook French, but outside of Parisian schools, most people don't speak or know textbook French, the speak variations on it littered with slang.
And people who have learned more than one language, without quite realizing it, have a tendency to mix up the languages at times. Using a Polish, Russian, French, Spanish etc word for an English one.
They also don't always understand the contextual uses of words in another language well nor the subtextual ones.
Some are better than others. But when people learn another language they tend to blend it into their own, and their accent which was developed to speak their own, doesn't tend to shift much when speaking another language that much. I work with a lawyer who speaks English with a British/Polish accent, and tends to speak British and think British. I catch it and just automatically translate it back to American English, often without thinking. Also living in NY for as long as I have - has resulted in picking up certain Britishisms with language, because I've worked with a lot of Brits, on and offline.
For light rail or subway, an annoyance in Singapore was that they've ended whatever those tickets were one could buy at the machines, instead one swipes a payment card at the barrier, on entry and exit, quite a fuss when one has children in tow and must use a separate card for each passenger, also for tourists the question of per-transaction fees; it also doesn't accept AmEx.
They are attempting to do the same thing in NYC, but you just explained rather well, I might add, on why they can't quite do it. They want to, it would do away with the expense and waste of the "Metro Cards" and "Rail Passes" but alas, they can't due to the reason you mentioned.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-03 08:10 pm (UTC)Absolutely agreed about French. One of the first things I noticed there is that questions often aren't, say, but rather simply, with the same questioning pitch change.
I've been entertained by people who know multiple languages to be struggling to find a word they know in one but not the other (even their native!) and to be working with similarly multilingual colleagues for help.
For nuances, one of my tricks as a rank amateur was, after looking up a word in a dictionary, look up the reverse to check the senses of the provided English alternatives seem enough similar.
After so many years of US/UK English differences I still discover new ones. For instance, in the cut text for this, my use of is rather more idiomatically British. I am allowing myself more Britishisms now I expect to be living in Scotland awhile.
With the rail cards, I'm just glad that we had enough for the party between us, given that we were half children (so to speak) and not all cards are accepted and, in my case, in my US/UK move I'm still rather in between cards too (closed some, not opened replacements, and two of my working ones are AmEx).
no subject
Date: 2022-09-03 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-09-04 12:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-09-04 07:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-09-04 09:20 am (UTC)https://www.singlish.net/
I'm rather fond of the Asian Civilisations Museum in Singapore. Also the Botanic Gardens, which is a UNESCO Heritage Site.
The land route between Singapore and Malaysia is notorious all over Southeast Asia, though it's probably currently worse than normal because of the COVID travel backlog.
Indoor shopping-centres are air-conditioned. Given a choice, only Westerners and smokers sit outside for fun in most cities (I knew a Russian once whose perennial complaint was that his office was too cold. There were endless exchanges along the lines of "Ivan, you're from Vladivostok, isn't this a summer heatwave temperature for you?, "No, is not the same!" Since all his colleagues on that floor were Southeast Asians, this argument cut no ice with anyone, as it were, least of all the office manager and Mistress of Central Refrigeration...).
no subject
Date: 2022-09-05 03:17 pm (UTC)Didn't try the Botanic Gardens, I may be a Westerner but I tend to be accompanied by Asians who really appreciate the air-conditioning you mention. (-: An issue I've had with some air-conditioned offices is they were rather colder than I needed, also than what I also had to deal with outside, so I'd have to dress in layers and get changed. In general I do enjoy botanic gardens though so good to know this one's well worth it. (At some point, maybe on the way to the whatever they call the national museum, I believe I was walking through where a previous botanic garden used to be.) Though even just the common native flora is quite exotic from my perspective and fortunately R. can usually point things out to me.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-06 04:31 am (UTC)Buddhism and Hinduism can't really be separated culturally, especially in pre-colonial Southeast Asia.
no subject
Date: 2022-09-05 03:19 pm (UTC)